I’m glad you’ve not experienced that. I’ve experienced it in myself first and foremost, but also in most people with whom I’ve interacted. I have found it is very rare to encounter someone with a theocentric view of Scripture or salvation.
Love the emphasis here! But, so long as we imagine that our faith or obedience “switches on” God’s forgiveness, we have to remain legalistic—refining and defining “the laws” of pardon. This compels us to focus on “our part” in our salvation narrative. It tends to make us anxious or arrogant as you pointed out. It tears us up and tears us apart.
Fortunately, more of us are beginning to realize that grace always comes before faith or obedience, as certainly as Calvary came before Pentecost and Exodus came before Sinai.
Baptism and the Lord’s Supper communicate God’s unconditionally forgiving love; they do not cause God to love or forgive us. They cause us to know we’re already lovingly forgiven and to experience God’s grace. On Pentecost (Ac 2), afflicted hearts were told how to penitently experience God’s grace—remission of sins—not how to achieve it. To be a movement of grace, we may have to humbly correct some misunderstanding of what happened in Ac 2. Until then Christian unity or even recognizing “the body of Christ at large” (B.W. Stone) will be out of our reach.
Thank you for your respectful and thoughtful reply. At one time I would have said the same thing. Please consider that if grace (or pardon) is imparted—not merely communicated, cleansing the conscience (1 Pet 3:21)—when we respond to the gospel, then God withholds pardon until we respond correctly to the gospel. That means that God forgives sinners on a contractual basis. A contractual relationship with God sets us up for the anxiety or arrogance, that compulsive self-regard which the article wants to address. And, yes many denominations erroneously teach that very thing, only they say that faith (or the sinners prayer) is “the point at which God's grace is imparted.” But, no sinner can carry around the sins that our “scapegoat” carried away once for all time (Heb 9:26, 1 Jn 2:1,2, 4:9,10), except in our own minds. “In other words, God was reconciling the world to himself through Christ, by not counting people’s sins against them. [That’s really good news! DWP] And, God has trusted us with this message of reconciliation.” (2 Corinthians 5:19 CEB) This is consistent with God’s love that cannot keep a record of wrongs (1 Cor 13:5). Alienation can only happen on the human side of anyone’s relationship with God (Col 1:19-21). Of course, we can walk away from our Father and be lost (Lk 15), but no one is lost because they are unclean in God’s eyes (Ac 10:15,28). I would only add that “redemption” is the remission of sins at Calvary (Mt 26:28, Eph 1:7), and “salvation” is the experience of remission of sins at baptism (Mk 16:16, Ac 22:16). And that’s what immersion has to do with salvation.
Good luck with sorting out and doing everything Christ has commanded in order to achieve a “grace” that isn’t really grace. You may have misunderstood what I was saying. Atonement is forgiveness given; salvation is forgiveness received. I never said that everyone is already saved. Justification by grace is an objective reality for all people = unlimited atonement. Justification by faith is the subjective experience of obedient believers.
Some deep thoughts here for sure. I believe C.S. Lewis sayings that spiritual growth is like learning Greek. At first you struggle to conjugate, pronounce, and know all the vocabulary. As you grow, you become to appreciate the Iliad and the Odyssey in ways not previously possible.
Spirituality immaturity might be akin to stumbling through early parts of Greek. Staying in that state is not the goal. The greatest goal is appreciate the beauty of the literary works. Therefore, in my humble opinion, being Theocentric in my view of the Lord allows moved me closer to being like my older brother and King Jesus who was constantly thinking about the Father and not himself.
As often happens, we become like the world around us. Thinking only of ourselves.
I wrote a note a couple of weeks back saying We all think we're the main characters in our own movies, but in reality we're all supporting characters. I try to remember that whenever my ego feels like everything should be all about me!
What was a great help to me was when I finally understood that the Bible was not written to me or about me, but rather for me and all mankind.
The Bible is God’s written communication to us about who He is and his plan of salvation for all. But His promise of salvation is conditional and has written the only condition, but this condition also contains a promise John 3:16
Jesus is the center of it all.
Born once, die twice
Born twice, die once
But if He believes that I was worth dying for, then I must believe He’s worth living for.
He offers the true exchange …His sacrifice in exchange for our sin. We cannot earn salvation, but we will earn crowns, rewards and prizes. Although we are sealed with a guarantee by the Holy Spirit, we can still enter heaven with a life that has nothing to show for it.
I’m glad you’ve not experienced that. I’ve experienced it in myself first and foremost, but also in most people with whom I’ve interacted. I have found it is very rare to encounter someone with a theocentric view of Scripture or salvation.
Love the emphasis here! But, so long as we imagine that our faith or obedience “switches on” God’s forgiveness, we have to remain legalistic—refining and defining “the laws” of pardon. This compels us to focus on “our part” in our salvation narrative. It tends to make us anxious or arrogant as you pointed out. It tears us up and tears us apart.
Fortunately, more of us are beginning to realize that grace always comes before faith or obedience, as certainly as Calvary came before Pentecost and Exodus came before Sinai.
Baptism and the Lord’s Supper communicate God’s unconditionally forgiving love; they do not cause God to love or forgive us. They cause us to know we’re already lovingly forgiven and to experience God’s grace. On Pentecost (Ac 2), afflicted hearts were told how to penitently experience God’s grace—remission of sins—not how to achieve it. To be a movement of grace, we may have to humbly correct some misunderstanding of what happened in Ac 2. Until then Christian unity or even recognizing “the body of Christ at large” (B.W. Stone) will be out of our reach.
Insightful article. Thank you!
Thank you for your respectful and thoughtful reply. At one time I would have said the same thing. Please consider that if grace (or pardon) is imparted—not merely communicated, cleansing the conscience (1 Pet 3:21)—when we respond to the gospel, then God withholds pardon until we respond correctly to the gospel. That means that God forgives sinners on a contractual basis. A contractual relationship with God sets us up for the anxiety or arrogance, that compulsive self-regard which the article wants to address. And, yes many denominations erroneously teach that very thing, only they say that faith (or the sinners prayer) is “the point at which God's grace is imparted.” But, no sinner can carry around the sins that our “scapegoat” carried away once for all time (Heb 9:26, 1 Jn 2:1,2, 4:9,10), except in our own minds. “In other words, God was reconciling the world to himself through Christ, by not counting people’s sins against them. [That’s really good news! DWP] And, God has trusted us with this message of reconciliation.” (2 Corinthians 5:19 CEB) This is consistent with God’s love that cannot keep a record of wrongs (1 Cor 13:5). Alienation can only happen on the human side of anyone’s relationship with God (Col 1:19-21). Of course, we can walk away from our Father and be lost (Lk 15), but no one is lost because they are unclean in God’s eyes (Ac 10:15,28). I would only add that “redemption” is the remission of sins at Calvary (Mt 26:28, Eph 1:7), and “salvation” is the experience of remission of sins at baptism (Mk 16:16, Ac 22:16). And that’s what immersion has to do with salvation.
Good luck with sorting out and doing everything Christ has commanded in order to achieve a “grace” that isn’t really grace. You may have misunderstood what I was saying. Atonement is forgiveness given; salvation is forgiveness received. I never said that everyone is already saved. Justification by grace is an objective reality for all people = unlimited atonement. Justification by faith is the subjective experience of obedient believers.
Some deep thoughts here for sure. I believe C.S. Lewis sayings that spiritual growth is like learning Greek. At first you struggle to conjugate, pronounce, and know all the vocabulary. As you grow, you become to appreciate the Iliad and the Odyssey in ways not previously possible.
Spirituality immaturity might be akin to stumbling through early parts of Greek. Staying in that state is not the goal. The greatest goal is appreciate the beauty of the literary works. Therefore, in my humble opinion, being Theocentric in my view of the Lord allows moved me closer to being like my older brother and King Jesus who was constantly thinking about the Father and not himself.
As often happens, we become like the world around us. Thinking only of ourselves.
This is very thought provoking. Thanks
Interesting and very good thoughts
I wrote a note a couple of weeks back saying We all think we're the main characters in our own movies, but in reality we're all supporting characters. I try to remember that whenever my ego feels like everything should be all about me!
What was a great help to me was when I finally understood that the Bible was not written to me or about me, but rather for me and all mankind.
The Bible is God’s written communication to us about who He is and his plan of salvation for all. But His promise of salvation is conditional and has written the only condition, but this condition also contains a promise John 3:16
Jesus is the center of it all.
Born once, die twice
Born twice, die once
But if He believes that I was worth dying for, then I must believe He’s worth living for.
He offers the true exchange …His sacrifice in exchange for our sin. We cannot earn salvation, but we will earn crowns, rewards and prizes. Although we are sealed with a guarantee by the Holy Spirit, we can still enter heaven with a life that has nothing to show for it.
Truth 🙌 This reminds me of the “what about me” robot skit that Joyce Meyer shared years ago…