Love this... particularly love your inclusion of 1 Corinthians 15... And driving the point home that when we judge none believers and try to force Biblical sexual ethics on them we only drive them further from Jesus.
An examination of Christian sexual ethics is incomplete unless you include the three banned gnostic gospels discovered at Nag Hammadi: Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and the Gospel of Mary. These offer a very different perspective, particularly on Jesus' views on intimacy than available in the canonical gospels. You will be surprised and challenged, and most will not be able to accept these teachings.
Wes, I survived the utter chaos of the sexual revolution of my youth...and I can clearly say the guidance of the Bible is preferable to what I went through. I will take God over hedonism, any day.
My journey to become a follower of Jesus has been long and rocky. But it was worth every step and every fall. Feeling the love of Jesus in your heart is almost indescribable. He's given me a hard task, but never fails to give me the strength to succeed. I know that the more we pray to Jesus, the stronger the bond becomes. The splendor and glory of our Almighty Lord is far beyond our conception. Be Faithful, be Humble, but always strong in the Armor of God.
Wes, I would like to get your thoughts on what John the Baptist told Herod about his relationship with Herodias in light of your following quote, “Criticizing their sexual behavior, shaming them because they do not hold to a biblical sexual ethic, will not help bring them to Jesus. It’s not our job to hold them accountable for their sex life, it’s our job to share Jesus with them!”
That's a great question. John had a unique role. He was a prophet, sent to prepare the nation of Israel for the coming of the true King by rebuking them and calling them to repentance. Everyone in Israel was accountable to the Law of Moses, especially the one who had assumed the role of king (even though he was not really Jewish). So, in rebuking Herod for his unlawful relationship, John was holding Herod accountable to the Law he should have known and followed.
Our role in evangelism is different. We cannot expect unbelievers to have the same familiarity with Scripture or God's will as John could expect Herod to have. Our role is to tell people the Good News, not rebuke them because they aren't already living in obedience to it.
Wes, I am going to pushback on your reasoning here.
Although we are not prophets as John was are we not called to prepare non Christians for the return of the Lord, are we not to call them to repentance (Luke 24:47) (if so, what are we to tell them to repent of if we are not to rebuke them for their sin)?
Herod Antipas was not a king but the tetrarch of Galilee and Perea. I agree he was not Jewish and with that how is he accountable to the Law of Moses. To say he should have known the Law and followed it is to say Pilate, the Roman soldiers, etc. should have also known and followed it because they lived in Israel, but they were not bound by that Law. John went to a non Jew and rebuked him for his sexual immorality.
Well, first, Herod Antipas is called both tetrarch (Matthew 14:1) and “king” (Mark 6:14). So, he is the assumed king of the Jewish people at the time. He is not really Jewish, but he is a descendant of Abraham, because he is an Idumean, an Edomite. And he was presenting himself as an insider, not an outsider.
That’s Paul’s point in 1 Corinthians, as well as the point I was making in the article. We don’t judge outsiders (1 Cor. 5:12), but we do judge insiders. If someone is claiming to be part of the people of God, we hold them to the standard. If they don’t claim that, then they are under judgement already.
Yes, we definitely call people to repentance. The repentance we call them to is repent of living in defiance to the King. We tell them about Jesus and help them to see how much better it is to submit their lives to him. But their primary problem is not their sexual immorality, it is that they don’t know Jesus. If they confirmed to our sexual ethics, but not out of love and trust in Jesus, they would still be just as lost.
Thanks for the reply Wes. He wasn’t technically “king of the Jewish people” as he was one of four governors of the territory but as Coffman said he was popularly called king. Ishmael was also a descendant of Abraham but the Ishmaelite’s were no more Jewish than the Edomites. It was through the line of Jacob that the Jews came. However, I wasn’t aware until now that during the Maccabean time John Hyrcanus forced the Edomites to accept Judaism. One last example if you will would be Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well when He mentions her sexual immorality.
I am not seeing as you say how a Christian cannot criticize or judge those outside the church for their sexual behavior because that will not help bring them to Jesus. At some point a Christian and the deviant sexual behavior of the world will cross and that judgment must be made. Whether it is in teaching through an article in a paper, internet, or a parent who must stand against a school or government who is teaching their children about homosexuality, the transgender agenda, etc. that Christian will have to pass judgment on those who do not conform to God’s word.
Maybe I missed the point of your article entirely, but I appreciate your reply.
Love this... particularly love your inclusion of 1 Corinthians 15... And driving the point home that when we judge none believers and try to force Biblical sexual ethics on them we only drive them further from Jesus.
Thanks for writing
This is a completely necessary message for today's world.
First, to those who think everything is allowed by Jesus: It is not.
Then, to those who think the first step in conversion is to stop sexual immorality: It is not.
An examination of Christian sexual ethics is incomplete unless you include the three banned gnostic gospels discovered at Nag Hammadi: Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and the Gospel of Mary. These offer a very different perspective, particularly on Jesus' views on intimacy than available in the canonical gospels. You will be surprised and challenged, and most will not be able to accept these teachings.
Wes, I survived the utter chaos of the sexual revolution of my youth...and I can clearly say the guidance of the Bible is preferable to what I went through. I will take God over hedonism, any day.
My journey to become a follower of Jesus has been long and rocky. But it was worth every step and every fall. Feeling the love of Jesus in your heart is almost indescribable. He's given me a hard task, but never fails to give me the strength to succeed. I know that the more we pray to Jesus, the stronger the bond becomes. The splendor and glory of our Almighty Lord is far beyond our conception. Be Faithful, be Humble, but always strong in the Armor of God.
Wes, I would like to get your thoughts on what John the Baptist told Herod about his relationship with Herodias in light of your following quote, “Criticizing their sexual behavior, shaming them because they do not hold to a biblical sexual ethic, will not help bring them to Jesus. It’s not our job to hold them accountable for their sex life, it’s our job to share Jesus with them!”
That's a great question. John had a unique role. He was a prophet, sent to prepare the nation of Israel for the coming of the true King by rebuking them and calling them to repentance. Everyone in Israel was accountable to the Law of Moses, especially the one who had assumed the role of king (even though he was not really Jewish). So, in rebuking Herod for his unlawful relationship, John was holding Herod accountable to the Law he should have known and followed.
Our role in evangelism is different. We cannot expect unbelievers to have the same familiarity with Scripture or God's will as John could expect Herod to have. Our role is to tell people the Good News, not rebuke them because they aren't already living in obedience to it.
Wes, I am going to pushback on your reasoning here.
Although we are not prophets as John was are we not called to prepare non Christians for the return of the Lord, are we not to call them to repentance (Luke 24:47) (if so, what are we to tell them to repent of if we are not to rebuke them for their sin)?
Herod Antipas was not a king but the tetrarch of Galilee and Perea. I agree he was not Jewish and with that how is he accountable to the Law of Moses. To say he should have known the Law and followed it is to say Pilate, the Roman soldiers, etc. should have also known and followed it because they lived in Israel, but they were not bound by that Law. John went to a non Jew and rebuked him for his sexual immorality.
Well, first, Herod Antipas is called both tetrarch (Matthew 14:1) and “king” (Mark 6:14). So, he is the assumed king of the Jewish people at the time. He is not really Jewish, but he is a descendant of Abraham, because he is an Idumean, an Edomite. And he was presenting himself as an insider, not an outsider.
That’s Paul’s point in 1 Corinthians, as well as the point I was making in the article. We don’t judge outsiders (1 Cor. 5:12), but we do judge insiders. If someone is claiming to be part of the people of God, we hold them to the standard. If they don’t claim that, then they are under judgement already.
Yes, we definitely call people to repentance. The repentance we call them to is repent of living in defiance to the King. We tell them about Jesus and help them to see how much better it is to submit their lives to him. But their primary problem is not their sexual immorality, it is that they don’t know Jesus. If they confirmed to our sexual ethics, but not out of love and trust in Jesus, they would still be just as lost.
Thanks for the reply Wes. He wasn’t technically “king of the Jewish people” as he was one of four governors of the territory but as Coffman said he was popularly called king. Ishmael was also a descendant of Abraham but the Ishmaelite’s were no more Jewish than the Edomites. It was through the line of Jacob that the Jews came. However, I wasn’t aware until now that during the Maccabean time John Hyrcanus forced the Edomites to accept Judaism. One last example if you will would be Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well when He mentions her sexual immorality.
I am not seeing as you say how a Christian cannot criticize or judge those outside the church for their sexual behavior because that will not help bring them to Jesus. At some point a Christian and the deviant sexual behavior of the world will cross and that judgment must be made. Whether it is in teaching through an article in a paper, internet, or a parent who must stand against a school or government who is teaching their children about homosexuality, the transgender agenda, etc. that Christian will have to pass judgment on those who do not conform to God’s word.
Maybe I missed the point of your article entirely, but I appreciate your reply.